Fri, November 11, 2005
Daily Kos: Wal-Mart Fires Worker for Telling Truth About Xmas I don't agree with Kos at all; I just want to see if I can hear Arksie's head explode from across town.
© onebee · all rights reserved
www.onebee.com
Fri, November 11, 2005
Daily Kos: Wal-Mart Fires Worker for Telling Truth About Xmas I don't agree with Kos at all; I just want to see if I can hear Arksie's head explode from across town.
© onebee · all rights reserved
Joe Mulder — Fri, 11/11/05 4:55pm
Is it possible to disagree with everybody involved in a story on both sides of the issue?
I just heard this morning about Wal-Mart caving in and going with "Happy Holidays" instead of "Merry Christmas," (something Daily Kos didn't really mention) as if 99.99999999999% of Wal-Mart shoppers (in the United States, certainly) aren't either A) Christians, or B) non-Christians who either celebrate – or have no beef whatsoever with – Christmas.
Then, Wal-Mart apologizes to these same Christian people they're apparently not worried about disregarding with their "Happy Holidays" bullshit because someone dares suggest that Christmas incorporates traditions that have their origins somewhere other than Christianity.
So, here's Wal-Mart: "Sorry if we offended you, non-Christians. We won't say 'Merry Christmas' anymore, even though the only people who could possibly be offended by a well-meaning 'Merry Christmas' greeting are really the exact kind of assholes who we should actively be trying to offend whenever possible. Oh, and, sorry if we offended you, Christians. We won't acknowledge that Christmas incorporates any traditions that have origins outside of Christianity, even though anybody bothered by that idea is such a ridiculous person that they shouldn't be taken seriously in any way."
I've really had an assful of people (or institutions) apologizing when they've done nothing wrong but are still being attacked by idiots, whether it's Wal-Mart, Fisher DeBerry or Lawrence Summers. I would love it if, in these situations, people would take the Adam Carolla approach; when "Loveline" got taken off the radio in Hawaii because a few people complained about a Carolla rant centered on the fact that Hawaiians are the most retarded people in the world (it's hard to believe, but the whole thing was almost good-natured, and it turned out far more Hawaiians were upset to lose "Loveline" than were offended by the comments; most of the complainers couldn't have been listeners anyway, since anyone capable of being offended by Adam Carolla has no chance of making it through ten minutes of any given "Loveline" episode), Adam Carolla's response to the people who were offended was, basically, "feel free to blow me."
Bill Bennett essentially tried this approach a few months ago, and it basically worked. After being attacked by the left for supposedly advocating the abortion of black babies in order to reduce the crime rate after he made some comments on his radio show about how horrible it would be to advocate the abortion of black babies in order to reduce the crime rate (you can't make this stuff up!), Bennett essentially defended his sensible (I'm not saying I agree with Bill Bennett on abortion, just that his remarks made sense even if you disagree with them) comments. This undoubtedly gave him a newfound respect in the eyes of many (including me) who really couldn't have given less of a crap about Bill Bennett before the whole controversy.
(the White House, it should be noted, did issue a statement about Bennett's remarks being "inappropriate" or somesuch, reserving itself a spot in the Pussy Apology Hall of Fame for Little Bitches alongside Wal-Mart, DeBerry and the others)
Very few things get my dander up faster than the Pussy Apology. Let's stop it, okay? If you say something like "Christmas incorporates several traditions that originated outside of Christianity;" or "currently, in the North American sports world, and in football in particular, black guys run faster than white guys;" or "men's and women's brains appear to function differently;" and someone not only disagrees but professes to be deeply offended – i.e., lies (that's the really bad part, too, that people never talk about: a serious person could not possibly be offended by the above statements, so anyone claiming to be is lying in hopes of blackmailing you with character assassination in order to force you to bend to their will)... in you're ever in that situation, just remember the Adam Carolla response:
Feel free to blow me.
[my head explodes]
Bee Boy — Fri, 11/11/05 6:20pm
Ka-POW! Brilliant! Having resigned myself to the fact that I'm not coming up with anything of this caliber for onebee in the next few weeks, I'm delighted to fall back on my ability to draw it out of others. (Thanks for obliging.)
When I saw this link in my RSS reader today I almost didn't click on it because I knew it would be preposterous, but I hate Wal-Mart (or I would if I had time to care about Wal-Mart; it would be more accurate to say I don't shop there, don't identify with its core customers, and don't agree with some of its employment practices) and I noticed the use of "Xmas" instead of "Christmas," which is something I've been picking up lately because a) I'm an atheist, and b) I'm an asshole. (I'm actually pretty gentle and non-confrontational about it, but it's my belief that anyone who uses "Xmas" to make a statement other than "'Christmas' is too long to fit in the space I have to write" is an asshole. Just like someone who uses "womyn." So, while I'm an okay guy, I've satisfied my own conditions for (b) to be true, and I'm not going to compound the issue by denying it.)
Anyway, words can't express how utterly disappointed I was by the Daily Kos article on every level. Like Joe said, I deeply disagree with everyone on every side of the issue, which includes the original Wal-Mart policy, the stooge who e-mailed Wal-Mart about the policy, the fucktart who sniped back about how the Germans invented Santa (dangerously close to invoking Godwin's law), whoever decided to fire said fucktart, and the Catholic League – but also includes everyone at Daily Kos and anyone who commented on the story (I didn't read the comments, but we can assume).
This is exactly the sort of garbage that allows people to derogate terms like "liberal," "blogger," and "liberal blogger." But the Daily Kos post doesn't just make liberal bloggers look bad, it makes anyone who went to college look bad. It makes anyone who can string a sentence together look bad. "Oh, we're so smart! We know more than you about everything!" Fine, but this is how you choose to use that intelligence? Shame! Everyone in this story has their head up their ass, but special mention goes to Daily Kos for stirring the pot rather than rising above the rest and providing a thoughtful, reasoned analysis.
"Happy Holidays" is nice. It embraces everyone, and in no way does it "effectively ban Christmas." The reason to say it isn't out of fear of non-Christian groups complaining, but just because it's nice to make everyone feel welcome. I used to say it even before I was an asshole and back when I was barely even an atheist. I can't think of a reasonable non-Christian who would be offended to hear someone say "Merry Christmas," but I can't think of any reason to be offended by "Happy Holidays," so why not leave well enough alone? Besides, hate Wal-Mart if you want (I do), but they can do whatever they want in their own stores (short of illegal stuff like locking undocumented immigrants in overnight). Don't like it? Don't shop there. (I don't.)
But if you work in Wal-Mart's e-mail department (and what kind of horrific mutilating accident/congenital birth defect has left you with that as your only employment option?), then it's not your place to get up on a soapbox and spout your (misinformed) ideas about the origin of Christianity. Hate Christianity if you want (I do), but it doesn't make sense to denounce it just because certain beliefs and rituals are not original, registered patents of Jesus Christ himself – and making that argument won't do anything to diminish the legitimacy of the faith or shake the faithful from believing in it. It just asks for trouble, which is exactly what it got. (The woman who wrote in clearly has too much time on her hands, and it's a shameful waste of time, money, and bandwidth to make a stink over "Happy Holidays," but dude – let it go.) Your job is to publicly represent a corporation; you can't go spouting your personal views and expect the corporation to be okay with that.
The complaints of the Catholic League for Religious and Civil Rights are simply laughable. The existence of a Catholic League for Religious and Civil Rights is laughable. It's the rest of us who need our rights protected from them! But the point is, Daily Kos and the AP shouldn't be legitimizing a group like this by reporting the things it says as though they actually matter. The only reasonable thing to do with statements like that is to ignore them. They don't represent the actual beliefs of any significant number of reasonable people. Shame on the AP for publishing them in order to sensationalize the story and pretend they're offering "both sides" of the debate. Further shame on Daily Kos for holding these statements up as though they represent the ideals of all Christians.
Because, in doing so, Daily Kos basically sets it up as: "Choose one: a) I believe in God, Intelligent Design, and the moral imperative of Wal-Mart to mention the word 'Christmas' in every store and on its website; or b) I believe that religious people are idiots, any faith based on pre-existing ideas is fake, and Freedom of Speech means you can use someone else's megaphone to amplify your wackjob opinions and if they get mad at you for it, they're the asshole." Dumb or awesome. The reality is, everyone's wrong and there shouldn't even be a conversation, much less a debate. We could all be doing much more productive things with our time than firing off angry missives over petty grievances, drawing lines in the sand to divide ourselves over every issue, and demanding that anyone who disagrees with us belongs in prison for curtailing our inherent freedom.
Which is all a long way of saying, I essentially agree with Joe on everything (although I still think Bennett's remarks – "sensible" though they may be – are not the kind of thing you need to be verbalizing in the broadcast media).
Huzzah, for the long-awaited return of Point-Arksiepoint!
"Holly" — Sat, 11/12/05 11:01am
Having read these comments, I was in agreement with both of you that everyone in this story comes off looking silly (at best); I then tranquilly wandered off to check out the day's football games (far less interesting now that Virginia Tech has suffered their crushing, inexplicable, but entirely-predictable-because-they-do- it-EVERY-YEAR mid-season defeat).
As I turned on the TV, however, CNN was in the midst of telling this very story. And they pointed out that Wal-Mart has, indeed, now met all of the Catholic League's various "demands," and that conservative Christian groups have also launched similar crusades against other retailers (Target, some giant famous New York department store whose name I forget) in the last couple years.
Thus, here's what particularly irritates me about this story. Aren't these the same people who are supposed to worry that Christmas might already be too "secular"? Aren't these the same people who are supposed to eschew commercialism in favor of quiet, Christ-centered family time? Aren't these the same people who are supposed to be tithing to their church and giving to charity rather than buying cell phones for their 4-year-olds? Aren't these the same people who should barely be aware what Wal-Mart, Target, and New York Department Store X are even doing, because they're too busy spending time in quiet retreat from the everyday world, contemplating the awesome miracle of Christ's birth during this profound season?
That's what I learned as a kid at my small town Presbyterian church, but apparently we were wrong (we were a pretty liberal, open-minded congregation, though, so what do we know). Apparently these more conservative Christians spend so much time during the sacred church season of Advent shopping in massive U.S. retail outlets that their repeated exposure merely to the secular greetings and decorations used in each store might destroy their faith. And they're probably right to be so scared: if, as their actions indicate, they already believe Christmas is mostly about the shopping experience, I guess their faith is pretty misguided and fragile already.
Bee Boy — Sun, 11/13/05 8:36am
Well put. I'm astonished that Wal-Mart would dignify the Catholic League's outlandish demands by capitulating to them. I guess the League has managed to convince even mainstream Christians that the League's wacky beliefs actually stand for those of mainstream Christians. Wow. (Or, they've managed to convince Wal-Mart, Target, and Department Store X. Still, pretty chilling.)
"Alicia" — Mon, 11/14/05 1:52pm
I've only read the comments section of this argument, not the article about the argument. That said, I'll continue to blab away uninformed.
I'm not Christian, but man, do I LOVE Christmas. I LOVE IT. I love Santa, Christmas trees, ornaments, wreaths, presents, red&green sweaters, Reindeer, the whole bit. Christmas is a huge part of American culture, and like all things that have fully evolved into culture and aren't just claimed by religion, I think it can't be insulting or offensive to say Merry Christmas OR Happy Holidays.
It sounds to me, from your comments, like Walmart could've started out with "Happy Holidays" and no one would care, or stayed with "Merry Christmas" and only crazy people would care, either way.
Walmart sells a whole section of Christmas paraphernalia every year, it would be ludicrous to pretend otherwise. I'd also be highly surprised if Walmart didn't have a bunch of Hannukah stuff. Should they have Ramadan decor? Maybe, if enough Walmart shoppers demand it. I suspect, however, that Ramadan shoppers have other places they buy their stuff and might not be shocked to show up at Walmart and find their needs unmet.
Not sure if this is exactly the issue, but figured I'd weigh in as a non-christian that happily celebrates christmas. I fully intend on having Christmas with my future TBD fam in full form because it's a fun holiday and we can choose not to celebrate it religiously. If someone wanted to celebrate Christmas all about religion with absolutely NO trees & ornaments, I would feel sorry for them, but couldn't care less how people celebrate a holiday in their own home.
I can't imagine being at walmart, buying my wrapping paper for Christmas, seeing a sign that says "merry christmas" and being like "WALMART YOU BASTARDS!!! I'm NOT a christian, dammit!!" That's retarded.
"Tom" — Thu, 11/24/05 8:12am
My wife & I just returned to WalMart, today, Thanksgiving Day, all of the Christmas gifts we had purchased from them, and told them the reason "was thier lack of acknowleding Christmas. They were very upset at the local store, but so be it. WE are going to spend money where the American culture and traditions are honored. If all stores decide not to honor our American traditions, then we will spend considerably less, and we will find some local vendors that will honor Christmas, and we will do some shopping with online catalogs. Thanks, Tommy Banks, Tuscaloosa, Alabama
Bee Boy — Thu, 11/24/05 10:05pm
Tom, thanks for sharing your story. It doesn't make sense to me to expect my store to acknowledge/celebrate/specifically mention everything I believe in, but I don't shop at Wal-Mart anyway, for other reasons. If you do, I applaud you for holding them accountable when they fail to meet your expectations. As consumers, the only voice we have with giant corporations is our checkbook. You've picked a fight that couldn't mean less to me. (In fact, the Pussy Apology Clause would compel me to boycott Wal-Mart if they were to capitulate to your demands and put Christmas signs back up.) But bless you for fighting anyway.
For the rest of us, how shocked were you to find that this message was beamed to us from Flyover Land? C'mon, seriously... on a scale of 1 to 10?
"Holly" — Fri, 12/16/05 8:52pm
Last week, I went out to dinner with an uncle of mine. The restaurant was decorated with Christmas trees and red, white, and green lights. As we were leaving, the receptionist said cheerily and with genuine good-heartedness, "Happy Holidays!" My uncle immediately looked her straight in the eye and said, sternly and pointedly, "Merry Christmas." She seemed very cowed as she answered, softly and hesitantly, "Yes, Merry Christmas."
Surely Jesus is cheering this profound and ringing victory over one of Satan's vile servants. (Although it's worth pointing out that, while my uncle turns out to feel persecuted to an embarrassing extent by the War On Christmas, it's not like he even goes to church. But whatever.)
Bee Boy — Fri, 12/16/05 11:27pm
On last night's show, Colbert did a brilliant bit in which he traced the etymology of "holiday" back to "holy day" (no idea if this is true but it has the "ring of truth" to it, which seems plenty these days). He then declared war on anyone who would take the "holy" out of "holy day."
I'm not a big fan of Christianity, but I've never said "Happy Holidays" to attack Christmas – I've always said it to be inclusive. I think it's weird that anyone would feel threatened by "Happy Holidays." Nobody is attacking or diminishing anyone's belief in Jesus – they're just not specifically mentioning their belief. I don't understand how the majority can feel persecuted just because the people around them aren't parroting their holiday greeting appropriately or often enough. I don't do that when my beliefs go unreinforced by strangers. I don't go around screaming persecution just because restaurant hostesses don't call out, "The age of consent should be lowered to 15!" Most people saying "Happy Holidays" probably celebrate Christmas; many probably worship Jesus, too. They're just trying to be friendly – seems to me, saying something open and welcoming would be in the spirit of the season, no?
Which is not to say Wal-Mart is off the hook for creating a policy which specifically restricts their employees from saying "Merry Christmas," because you'd have to be a crazy person to be offended by that greeting, no matter what you believe in. These days, "Merry Christmas" refers as much to the shopping season as it does to the religious holiday – which is why it's so preposterous for anyone to act like there's any religious intent in not saying it either.